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	<title>Comments on: How Judging Works</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/</link>
	<description>A tri-annual 48 hour solo game development competition.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: kibertoad</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-49251</link>
		<dc:creator>kibertoad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 01:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-49251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anybody know when the results will show up?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody know when the results will show up?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PIXEL^3</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-49250</link>
		<dc:creator>PIXEL^3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 01:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-49250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bacon medals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bacon medals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MadGnomeGamer</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-48778</link>
		<dc:creator>MadGnomeGamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 20:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-48778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The single highest and lowest ratings are deleted before the average is taken...I like that! Although there goes my plan of creating a game for a platform that only me and my freind have, and us both rating it a 5 in everything. :P Just kidding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The single highest and lowest ratings are deleted before the average is taken&#8230;I like that! Although there goes my plan of creating a game for a platform that only me and my freind have, and us both rating it a 5 in everything. <img src='http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  Just kidding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: onefineline</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-47667</link>
		<dc:creator>onefineline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 03:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-47667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Soooo, Ludum 24 is coming to a close... when&#039;s the next mini-LD?? I didn&#039;t know where else to post this! =)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Soooo, Ludum 24 is coming to a close&#8230; when&#8217;s the next mini-LD?? I didn&#8217;t know where else to post this! =)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: digital_sorceress</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-47203</link>
		<dc:creator>digital_sorceress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 19:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-47203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then they score 5.00 for audio.

Except that in that situation they wouldn&#039;t get a score for audio, because the single highest and single lowest ratings are deleted before the average is taken.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then they score 5.00 for audio.</p>
<p>Except that in that situation they wouldn&#8217;t get a score for audio, because the single highest and single lowest ratings are deleted before the average is taken.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: madflame991</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-47200</link>
		<dc:creator>madflame991</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 19:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-47200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then what if a game with no audio receives 100 N/A votes and one 5 star vote? I&#039;m confuss :(]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then what if a game with no audio receives 100 N/A votes and one 5 star vote? I&#8217;m confuss <img src='http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: digital_sorceress</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-47171</link>
		<dc:creator>digital_sorceress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 17:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-47171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[N/A means not included in the average. It doesn&#039;t mean zero.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>N/A means not included in the average. It doesn&#8217;t mean zero.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: madflame991</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-47158</link>
		<dc:creator>madflame991</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 17:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-47158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I still don&#039;t get it: what does N/A stand for? 0 or null (in an SQL-ish sense, I mean, if it&#039;s 0 then it will influence the mean, if it&#039;s null it will not)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t get it: what does N/A stand for? 0 or null (in an SQL-ish sense, I mean, if it&#8217;s 0 then it will influence the mean, if it&#8217;s null it will not)?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: R3ason</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44905</link>
		<dc:creator>R3ason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Answered my own question: spreadsheet!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answered my own question: spreadsheet!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: R3ason</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44897</link>
		<dc:creator>R3ason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Am I correct in guessing that there&#039;s no way to sort this page?...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I correct in guessing that there&#8217;s no way to sort this page?&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: deepnight</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44887</link>
		<dc:creator>deepnight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The coolness rule is a really really good idea :) Nice judging gameplay!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The coolness rule is a really really good idea <img src='http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Nice judging gameplay!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Raptor85</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44876</link>
		<dc:creator>Raptor85</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-23/?action=misc_links]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-23/?action=misc_links" rel="nofollow">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-23/?action=misc_links</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 7Soul</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44530</link>
		<dc:creator>7Soul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2012 17:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I miss the old list, where I could see how many votes the most popular games have...I mean, I got a lot of ratings and I&#039;m thinking &quot;wow, this is the most I ever got, I wonder how everybody else is doing&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I miss the old list, where I could see how many votes the most popular games have&#8230;I mean, I got a lot of ratings and I&#8217;m thinking &#8220;wow, this is the most I ever got, I wonder how everybody else is doing&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44367</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2012 03:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that the equation:

D = 50 + R - min(C,100)/2

is adequate - when this is in a system, it will naturally bring up games with few ratings. Whenever someone rates a game in this system, their own D rating decreases by 1/2, but someone else&#039;s D rating increases by 1. So, there is a net increase of 1/2 in the system. This means that, as time goes on, the total of everyone&#039;s D ratings will increase, and thus, the minimum D rating should increase as well.

Say the average number of games that each person rates is 10. This would mean that the average D rating would be 55, and since the disparity in D ratings should be relatively small, the minimum D rating might be close to 55 as well. Then, all games would get a minimum of around 5 ratings.

More generally, we just need something of the form:

D = R - B(C)

Where R is the number of ratings, B is the &quot;bonus function&quot;, taking coolness and yielding the number of extra ratings a user gets. The expression C - B(C) is the number of votes that a user generated (C) minus the number of votes they consumed (B(C)) - it&#039;s the net change in the system affected by each user. It should be positive so that people who rated nothing get to use the extra votes generated by the system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the equation:</p>
<p>D = 50 + R &#8211; min(C,100)/2</p>
<p>is adequate &#8211; when this is in a system, it will naturally bring up games with few ratings. Whenever someone rates a game in this system, their own D rating decreases by 1/2, but someone else&#8217;s D rating increases by 1. So, there is a net increase of 1/2 in the system. This means that, as time goes on, the total of everyone&#8217;s D ratings will increase, and thus, the minimum D rating should increase as well.</p>
<p>Say the average number of games that each person rates is 10. This would mean that the average D rating would be 55, and since the disparity in D ratings should be relatively small, the minimum D rating might be close to 55 as well. Then, all games would get a minimum of around 5 ratings.</p>
<p>More generally, we just need something of the form:</p>
<p>D = R &#8211; B(C)</p>
<p>Where R is the number of ratings, B is the &#8220;bonus function&#8221;, taking coolness and yielding the number of extra ratings a user gets. The expression C &#8211; B(C) is the number of votes that a user generated (C) minus the number of votes they consumed (B(C)) &#8211; it&#8217;s the net change in the system affected by each user. It should be positive so that people who rated nothing get to use the extra votes generated by the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Eroguitar</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44261</link>
		<dc:creator>Eroguitar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely, if there&#039;s one thing I&#039;ve learned about game developers, they always like to hear other people&#039;s opinions and thoughts about their game, myself included.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, if there&#8217;s one thing I&#8217;ve learned about game developers, they always like to hear other people&#8217;s opinions and thoughts about their game, myself included.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Codexus</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44208</link>
		<dc:creator>Codexus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 18:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s a good system.

Those who do rate games get rewarded, and like any good leveling system you get rewards quickly at first so you get a taste for it and then have to work a bit harder for the next ones.

I have no problems with people who don&#039;t rate *at all* not getting much feedback. As you said even a few ratings will get you a fair number of ratings back. But not doing it at all means they are not interested in that aspect of ludum dare.  It should be however made clear why they don&#039;t get much feedback.

I think there is a minimum number of votes to be in a category, so they would be &#039;unrated&#039;. But that might not even happen since people can also look at the list sorted by absolute number of ratings received.

We can&#039;t expect everyone to have the time to rate many games, but anyone should be able to test 10 games if they really want to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a good system.</p>
<p>Those who do rate games get rewarded, and like any good leveling system you get rewards quickly at first so you get a taste for it and then have to work a bit harder for the next ones.</p>
<p>I have no problems with people who don&#8217;t rate *at all* not getting much feedback. As you said even a few ratings will get you a fair number of ratings back. But not doing it at all means they are not interested in that aspect of ludum dare.  It should be however made clear why they don&#8217;t get much feedback.</p>
<p>I think there is a minimum number of votes to be in a category, so they would be &#8216;unrated&#8217;. But that might not even happen since people can also look at the list sorted by absolute number of ratings received.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t expect everyone to have the time to rate many games, but anyone should be able to test 10 games if they really want to.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: digital_sorceress</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44191</link>
		<dc:creator>digital_sorceress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We have to accept that not everyone will bother to rate games. At the moment, those people&#039;s games all but ignored with just 1 or 2 votes.

You must realise that ALL games still need to be fairly rated in order to build a credible ladder. The system I&#039;ve outlined should achieve this better than the current system, while fairly rewarding those who are rating games.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to accept that not everyone will bother to rate games. At the moment, those people&#8217;s games all but ignored with just 1 or 2 votes.</p>
<p>You must realise that ALL games still need to be fairly rated in order to build a credible ladder. The system I&#8217;ve outlined should achieve this better than the current system, while fairly rewarding those who are rating games.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Raptor85</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44146</link>
		<dc:creator>Raptor85</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any game with &lt;20 votes that&#039;s not already showing up on the first page is because they&#039;re not bothering to rate any other games themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any game with &lt;20 votes that&#039;s not already showing up on the first page is because they&#039;re not bothering to rate any other games themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nehmulos</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44133</link>
		<dc:creator>Nehmulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, I just wanted to note that in the beginning I was a little bit confused by having two comment boxes just next to each other (the one for the vote and the general comment). 

Maybe the &quot;Save&quot; button could be relabeled to &quot;Save Vote&quot; so that it would be obvious, that your vote will only be saved once you click that button and it&#039;s a button to save a comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I just wanted to note that in the beginning I was a little bit confused by having two comment boxes just next to each other (the one for the vote and the general comment). </p>
<p>Maybe the &#8220;Save&#8221; button could be relabeled to &#8220;Save Vote&#8221; so that it would be obvious, that your vote will only be saved once you click that button and it&#8217;s a button to save a comment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: digital_sorceress</title>
		<link>http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/04/24/how-judging-works/comment-page-1/#comment-44116</link>
		<dc:creator>digital_sorceress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/?p=138925#comment-44116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Between the old random system and the current system, for a short time we sorted games by least ratings, which I think was the best of the three systems. 

I understand how the current system aims to encourage more voting by rewarding those who do. It&#039;s just that the reward is so big, that it is amplifying the problems it is intending to solve.

To address this, and building upon my previous formula, we could increase the priority of games with R less than 20:

D = 50 + R -  C&#039;/2

where 
if R is less than 20, then P = (20-R) else P=0
Then let C&#039; = C + P, capped at 100.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Between the old random system and the current system, for a short time we sorted games by least ratings, which I think was the best of the three systems. </p>
<p>I understand how the current system aims to encourage more voting by rewarding those who do. It&#8217;s just that the reward is so big, that it is amplifying the problems it is intending to solve.</p>
<p>To address this, and building upon my previous formula, we could increase the priority of games with R less than 20:</p>
<p>D = 50 + R &#8211;  C&#8217;/2</p>
<p>where<br />
if R is less than 20, then P = (20-R) else P=0<br />
Then let C&#8217; = C + P, capped at 100.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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